"I SUPPOSE I'M GLAD I'M ON THIS TRAIN": JAMES SHAKESHAFT ON MAKING RAGGED ORNAMENTS

Interviewed by LOUIS LOTA

Photographed by Adam Garbutt

March 09, 2025

Having initially met in the kitchen of a friend’s party, bonding over a shared love of yé-yé singers and other 60s pop, Louis catches James to discuss life in Australia, a mutual envy of John Cale, and getting into bands for their fashion before their music. James’ new album Ragged Ornaments features 10 soulful rockers, recorded with his Groupe at the Nave Studios in Leeds, and is released April 11th on Esco Romanesco Records.

LOTA: Looking good James. Grown out the hair, rocking the tan.

SHAKESHAFT: Ah, you’re too kind, man.

LOTA: Have you been playing much out in Australia?

SHAKESHAFT: I did a gig over here actually the other day at a spot called the Merri Creek Tavern, which is Marlon Williams and Aldous Harding’s old haunt. That’s a great venue, and I did it with a guy I met out here called Vasco. He does some really interesting stuff, Ry Cooder meets Next Day David Bowie. 

LOTA: Being in that environment, with the heat and the pace of life, is it affecting what you’re playing?

SHAKESHAFT: I’m not making a Beach Boys record any time soon if that’s what you’re thinking.

LOTA: You certainly look the part, you got a 70s Dennis thing going on.

SHAKESHAFT: I’d certainly take that! But no, no Beach Boys record coming. I did think about how it’s changed my writing since being out here. I’ve not done a whole lot since being here to be honest. I don’t think it’s uncommon to find it hard to move onto a new body of work when you’re still submerged in a project. That’s something I’ll be glad of once this record’s out. Not that I want it out the way, I love the process. Who knows, maybe I’ve spoken too soon and I’ll come back to you with a Surfin’ Safari.

LOTA: Haha, I endorse that. How are you feeling about the new record coming out? Do you feel ready to release your attachment to it, or did that happen when you first heard the masters?

SHAKESHAFT: There’s been so many different stages to the record, obviously starting with the writing process which was before I even got the group together. So the songs changed quite a bit moving from the writing to rehearsing and recording phases. And this all spanned quite a bit of time, so on a personal level I am definitely ready for the material to be out.

LOTA: Interesting that you wrote it before you had the group, because of how much more rocking it is to what you were doing before. Especially the first two tracks. I remember listening to the first versions you sent over, and those two really sounded like the band had made the songs all together, Basements Tapes style, as if they didn't exist before the three of you plugged in and looked at each other.

SHAKESHAFT: You know what, there is actually some truth to that because the songs didn't exist in that capacity. The band did something totally different with them. Tom and Harry really had a huge impact on the dynamic sound of these recordings. I remember in one of the early rehearsals Tom said to me “I’m gonna make us sound like The Replacements”, and I thought “that’s fine by me”. So I think there is truth to that, they did have two lives. But even when I’m writing just with my guitar or piano, I can always hear a bigger composition. I guess the aim is to write songs that can take both treatments.

The first album was a product of circumstance, I was recording those songs in isolation as much because of the pandemic, as it was a sort of roll of the dice as to whether or not the songs were good enough to be recorded. And I anticipated that to be the case for this one too, but was just lucky enough to meet a bunch of people that were enthusiastic about the material to the point where they wanted to leave their mark on it as well. 

LOTA: In that sense, it was nice to do the two versions of Simple and True (studio recording and live session), I guess that gets that point across.

SHAKESHAFT: Yes, exactly.

LOTA: My personal favourite is the penultimate track, It’s So Easy, with the Ronnettes beat. Whenever I’ve written anything with that strumming pattern - there must be a name for that - I can't help but imagine Roy Orbison or Ronettes style production surrounding it.

SHAKESHAFT: I mean that whole song is a kind of pastiche of that period and, you know, Tin Pan Alley pop song writing. Even the chorus “It’s so easy to forget to remember”, it’s a reworking of Elvis, right? I can’t remember if that was conscious at the time but the combination of that with the Spector style intro you mention, it's a very evocative and well-trodden path. Hey, maybe this record’s more like the Beach Boys than I first thought…

LOTA: What else were you listening to while making the record?

SHAKESHAFT: Well, because it spanned quite a long period, certain artists came and went throughout that time, and others were more enduring. When I was writing, I definitely remember listening to a lot of songs by the Scottish musician Dick Gaughan. He plays a lot on the Transatlantic Sessions on the BBC. I think the thing I was drawn to with his work was the way that he handled themes that could be considered quite crass, but he did it with tact, and it gave me a confidence to write about things that I hadn’t before. So he was quite an important figure at that time. I was also listening to a lot of this singer called Elyse Weinberg, her harmonies and vocal melodies made a strong impression.

LOTA: I don't know Elyse Weinberg, who is she?

SHAKESHAFT: I don’t know a lot about her to be honest, I think she’s Canadian. She’s got this great album called Grease Paint Smile, and the tone of it is just fantastic. Her voice is so distinct, it’s got all the markings of an iconic voice and I don’t think she gets enough of a look in to be honest. I remember listening to this record and finding out that Neil Young is playing electric guitar on it, and as soon as you find that out, it is so obvious. You know those really weird choppy time signatures that are hard to put a finger on. Anyway, I still don't know a lot about her. I was reading Neil’s book Waging Heavy Peace a few years ago, which I thought was going to give some insight into his life, but the majority of it is about model trains! And he was mentioning so many people that came into his life, I was really hoping he was going to give a mention to these sessions, or even mention Elyse, but as far as I can tell there wasn’t one mention of her.

LOTA: I’ll have to have a dig. Does it sound like how Ragged Ornaments sounds, or is the influence more in the writing?

SHAKESHAFT: It’s its own thing. There are elements. That wasn’t what I was following as a blueprint or north star for the sound of the album, but I can certainly see how it has bled in. If we are talking about that sort of thing, an album that always becomes that for me if I’m not careful is John Cale’s Vintage Violence. I don’t know if simplicity is the right word, but there’s something in those melodies and songs that I’m trying to reach.

LOTA: I’m sure everyone’s got that album that is probably not even their favourite album to listen to, but it’s the album they think they should have, or could have, made. And you always return to it when working on a project. For example, Sgt. Pepper’s, which I would consider to be THE album or whatever, it’s not an album I’m thinking of or aspiring to in the studio. It just doesn't hold a vessel for my voice or vision. But I listen to an album like Cale’s Paris 1919, and that album makes me want to make an album.

SHAKESHAFT: Funny that, that’s the exact same effect that album has on me too, both of them John Cale albums.

LOTA: It’s not even that they’re stripped back or tangible in the recording in any way. There is just some mirror in that album that I can’t help look into when I’m listening.

SHAKESHAFT: He makes it seem so doable. The song from that album, which for my money has the best opening line for a song going, on Half Past France he says “I suppose I’m glad I’m on this train”. There is no gate keeping, it makes you feel anyone can write songs. Three or four chords, just laying out the events of this train journey. That's just opening the door and inviting you to step in and think you can do it.

LOTA: How does this folk group you play with in Meanwood impact the music you make or situates your head when you're writing?

SHAKESHAFT: Those nights, they taught me that music has a value in and of itself, that’s not determined by external validation. It’s a thing that first and foremost is there to enrich the lives of your community and your friends and loved ones. In that space, music is just something to do at the end of a working week, there is not much more to it than that. I didn’t have that in my life prior to that, and the way that it affected my music is that we play such a rich variety of songs, things from Harry Smith’s folk anthology, Hank Williams, George Jones, Merle Haggard, John Prine, all of these great song writers, and I take them songs everywhere with me when I’m writing now. And it also keeps my desires and ambitions as a song writer in check, because I realise the value of music in that context. For me that was an important thing to establish.

LOTA: Amazing, what exactly is it, what are the sessions?

SHAKESHAFT: So they’ve been running in some variety for I’m gonna say for the best part of thirty years in different locations. Right now, we get together round at a friend's house and the line up changes each week. People from all walks of life, some are professional musicians, some aren’t. But that just doesn't even register, it’s a social thing primarily, and we just get together and play these songs. Over the years people have brought songs together and we’ve collated them all, we’ve got these big ring-bound folders that are now taking on biblical proportions. 

LOTA: I get such a warm image every time you mention or describe them nights, sounds special.

What is your relationship between music and, firstly, fashion, but also visuals in general? I’ve always thought you’ve physically embodied the sound of your songs, not even just on stage, but in a general capacity.

SHAKESHAFT: It’s funny you compare it to the music, because I hope my music is more ambitious than my wardrobe, as someone who has worn the same pair of trousers for the past seven years, and a jacket with the same amount of mileage. Especially for stage shows, I think I’ve found a kind of uniform that I’m comfortable with.

LOTA: Uniform can bring out a crazy side to you though.

SHAKESHAFT: I thoroughly believe in the uniformed band. I mean, the Ramones are up there with my favourite bands and Joey Ramone as a singer, wow! The outfits bring I guess a working mindset. It's strange, like they all say “we’re not playing a note until we put on these uniforms”. I’m quite into that. I did float the idea with the group, but there was some objection. I think for me as well, when I was first getting into music, image was pretty much the majority of it. One of my early loves was The Clash, and that’s an enduring one.  I had the posters and loved the way Joe Strummer looked, just how he held himself. And that struck a chord with me long before the words as a kid. I didn’t understand the significance of songs like Police & Thieves at that age, but the attitude of that band was the thing that struck me. Then, much like poetry the lyrics creep up on you and validate the curiosity that was peaked by the bands image. I think it matters.

LOTA: Perhaps I’m glamorising now, but when you look at bands from the past decades, there was so much more emphasis from the bands themselves, but also labels, to create a stronger visual message that pushes the music further.

SHAKESHAFT: I fully stand with that. I’ve always thought the best bands are the ones who came out of art school. I’m talking sweeping statements here, but you know, I kept finding out the bands I was drawn to came from that background.

LOTA: Roxy!

SHAKESHAFT: Exactly, Roxy Music, Devo, The Clash. Paul Simonon couldn’t play bass, he was solely a visual artist, but he looked the part, they got him in and the music came later. I’m not saying that’s the right or wrong approach, but I think bands that put effort in certainly draw me in.

LOTA: When did you start thinking about music, not just as a fan of these bands, but feeling that you had something to say, and it be a method you could participate in?

SHAKESHAFT: Not till later on. I was probably in my early twenties. I always knew it was a way to express yourself, but it never occurred to me that I could use it to those ends. After some sort of tentative late nights singing along to records - there’s that Leonard Cohen song One of us Cannot be Wrong - as not to wake up other people in the house. Shortly after that I took to driving around with this 3-disc set of George Jones songs, that I bought for as many pounds, and I was just trying to do whatever he does with his voice. Those high and lonesome harmonies, those erratic shifts of pitch and not to mention trying to cram as many syllables into a verse as humanly possible leaving you breathless as though you’d just run a race illustrated in his song ‘The Race Is On’. It was around that time that I started to notice a shift in my relationship with music and it began to step into the forefront, something I wanted to be a part of and not just an enthusiastic observer.

LOTA: For me, more than just listening to and falling in love with songs and how they were written, it was coming to Leeds and watching amateur bands play shaky shows at the Book Club and the like that made me think writing was something I should do.

SHAKESHAFT: Interesting.

LOTA: Not even that I knew anyone in the bands at the start, it was just the idea that to be a part of this scene, you have to be on stage. And I didn’t want to play covers.

SHAKESHAFT: Yeah, you gotta have a body of work. I worked in radio for years before I started doing my own music, and I was very much on the sideline. Talking to musicians and I was so enthusiastic about it. But something around that time switched and I told myself that I want to be on the other side, doing it. And I think I realised that if you don't have the work, you can’t do it. So I started writing. You can’t be a butcher if you haven’t got any meat.

LOTA: It sounds like a very personal record, with stories about yourself, mixed in with some new, broader subject matter. 

SHAKESHAFT: I get imagery and fragments of things from all over. Collage is something that I’ve always  been drawn to with my approach to song-writing, as well as in visual art. And a lot of my songs are just made up of these fragments of imagery and feelings, things that I feel are coherent and sit together, then mold them into a song. With this record, I definitely tried to write about themes in a more universal sense. I didn’t want it to be an intricate account of another fellas' experiences. Not that we don’t need another one of them, but there’s a lot of that. And I think I try to write in a way that allows for interpretation, with a lot of room for working things out. It’s funny because when I play the first song on the record, When the Last Echoes Fade, there are lines which probably make people think that it’s an autobiographical song, and I think that might be quite a new reaction to have to music, I don’t know if that’s a reflection of culture at large, that everyone seems to assume that you can only write about your personal experience.

LOTA: Hyper-individualisation…

SHAKESHAFT: Yeah. And the case with that song is that I’ve got a friend of mine who you can't cross eyes on the street without leaving with a pile of esoteric films that he’s telling you to go and watch. He’s one of them one-man-libraries. And I was watching one of those films and got the opening verse from one of the images in one of the scenes, and then the rest of the song was just born out of the feeling of that. 

LOTA: What was the film?

SHAKESHAFT: It was a Kurosawa film, the one with this doctor in the suburbs of Tokyo, I can’t remember the title, it's like a 50s / 60s Japanese Noir film. It was just quite a striking image and I wondered what would that sound like if you described what was depicted on the screen. And then I liked the way that it sounded and the mood it set, and went from there. But yeah, it’s hard to write something that’s entirely detached from your lived experience. It’s definitely not strictly just that as an album.

LOTA: Well, I’m excited for it to come out.

SHAKESHAFT: Not too long now.

LOTA: Speak soon James.

Ragged Ornaments is out 11th April 2025